[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the Tech Advantage. I'm Roland Parker and today we show how practical technology and AI can strengthen operations and create measurable business results. You're now watching now media.
Welcome to the Tech Advantage. I'm Roland Parker and this is where I help business owners, executives and and decision makers make sense of the technology risks and opportunities shaping the modern business world. Today, we're looking at one of the biggest leadership questions of our time. How do you stay relevant, resilient and effective when AI, automation and constant disruption keep changing the rules?
So joining me today is Dr. Deepak Bhutra, a global business leader, executive coach, author and host of Rise up at Work.
For more than 30 years, he has led growth, strategy and transformation across Fortune 500 and multinational organizations, building high performance teams across Asia, Africa and North America. Today, Rise Up Career Studio, he helps professionals and leaders reclaim clarity, confidence and long term success in a rapidly changing world.
I open the episode by connecting technology change to career change.
This segment frames a conversation around reinvention not as panic, but as a practical leadership response to a world that is actually moving faster than ever.
We're living at a moment where AI and digital change are really moving fast.
So why are so many capable professionals suddenly feeling uncertain about their future?
Sir?
[00:02:03] Speaker B: First of all, Roland, thank you for having me. And this topic and this discussion is really powerful because I think everyone's talking about AI, everyone's talking about change.
And here's the work that I do, right? And people approach me all the time and they talk to me about, oh, I've got this thing about AI. And one thing I've realized is that they're not scared of AI per se. What's happening is that they're not scared of change also, Roland, what they're scared of is uncertainty. And the uncertainty that AI brings is very different. Because what happened till now is that when you got the calculator, we threw away the abacus. When we got automation, we threw away the lower level of the organization. AI is one of those things which actually says, hey, hold on buddy, I can actually do your job and I can do it better. So what you now have is a cleaver that's not cutting the lower level. This cleaver is cutting vertically up and down. So it impacts the people that used to think that their knowledge and their judgment was going to be preserved are the very people affected by AI. So these capable professionals are looking at AI and they're asking a simple job, whoa, whoa, whoa, can AI do my job? And the real question that they're actually asking in their mind is where is my value going to come from if AI can do my job? And do you see, Roland, that's the problem right over there, right? Technology was supposed to help us get better at taskmaking. And now what's happening is technology is actually making it very hard for us to create or build a career. Because what we used to build a career on is now open for the taking by non human beings. So what I tell people is that it's not about protecting your job anymore. It's actually on figuring how to remain relevant when you know that the same tech that is potentially going to take a job is also the same tech that can give you tailwind. And that, Roland, is how I'd like to start this segment with you.
[00:03:38] Speaker A: Yes. So one of the things we've really found is that maybe not AI is not going to replace everybody, but it's definitely going to replace those people that don't adopt AI. And it's realizing that, wow, you've got to start using and understanding AI.
So when somebody realizes that their career path that they worked on may not be enough anymore, where do they actually begin?
[00:04:07] Speaker B: Here's the fun part, right? Everyone's looking at AI.
Just rewind for a second here. When Excel came out, everyone was like, I need to develop an Excel skill set, right? So people would always start. Now we've been habitually told that when new tech comes, you need to develop a skill about it, we need to learn something about it. And here's the funny thing, what I'm asking you to understand with AI is that it's not going to be about skill set. You actually need to slow down a bit and actually understand what is changing around you. A lot is changing around you. It's not just your skills, it's actually a strategy on how you're going to build your career. You need to actually figure out that these capabilities that AI is going to take away from you are also capabilities that will nourish you. What you need to do is you need to do what I call intentional upgrades. Roland, you got to become someone else. Because with AI you're just not going to be able to remain what you are. You have to become someone else. And, and to begin, you need to actually first understand how to adopt AI, how to adapt to AI and then use AI to push the provable career forward, knowing that two or three years from now people are not going to just ask you about your resume or about a early career person. My warning to the whole world, and I'll say this to you as well, Ronan. I think you'll appreciate it is people are going to actually ask you how has AI made you better at the job you do, what agents have you built in the role that you do? And what agents will you bring to this organization that our organization benefit from them?
Mark my words. It's coming, Roland. It sounds far fetched, but I can tell you the same way that people ask you whether you have Excel, intermediate skills or advanced skills. They're going to ask you what type of agents do you run in your fleet and are you going to bring your own agent to the work that you will do for us? That's the future interview.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: And it really is a completely different mindset because in the past it was about your knowledge base, what you could do, what skills you were bringing to the table.
So when do professionals really know when they actually need a new skill, a new strategy, or actually a completely new mindset?
[00:06:04] Speaker B: Honestly? Let's just park the AI conversation for one second, right, Roland, and let's just talk about. I always tell people when you need to figure out whether it's a skill or, or a strategy or a mindset issue is first look at the pattern behind the problem that you're trying to solve, right? And when you look at patterns, you suddenly realize that, hey, wait, wait, wait. If I don't have knowledge, then you need a skill. But if you know what you need to do, but you still aren't getting results, then I assure you, Roland, your strategy is wrong. Right? Everything is great on my resume, but I can't get a job. That means that you're doing something wrong at the moment in putting forward your resume. That's your strategy. And if you realize that my skills are there, my strategy is working to some degree, but I still feel that I'm stuck and you're repeating the same behaviors, then I assure you that's a mindset issue. And here's what the fun part is. When I work with my clients, Roland, and I tell them that I think there's something holding you back from a mindset point of view. The next thing they say is that, oh, you know what, I think I need to do more Excel or I need to do more AI. So I went for a skills course. A skills course is not going to help you with the mindset unless you go and do something with a mindset intervention, as I call it, right?
And people go and all the time, especially people with early career mindset, 21 to 30 year olds, they're always going to Attack a skills course. The number of people who tell me that I'm going to study in generalist AI fellowship and therefore I'm going to change my job. It makes me cry. It's not a skill issue anymore, it's a strategy issue. Where do you fit? Where do you see yourself going? And to be honestly, a lot of people are jumping to prescribing the solution without understanding this powerful question you've asked. What is the difference between a new skill or a new strategy or a whole new mindset? And those that will figure this out, they are the guys that will get the breakthroughs going forward, Roland, I guarantee you that. And you kind of said that cautionary thing, right? AI brings a very different dilemma to people. This is what I call terra incognito. You've never been here before. This is Here Be Dragons territory and I think people need to understand that. So whatever you do on AI literally needs to be mindset first, strategy next and then skill set at the end. I would change the order that way.
[00:08:07] Speaker A: So when people are trying to reinvent themselves, they obviously realize they need to do something.
What mistakes are they going to make when they're doing it from a place of fear instead of clarity?
[00:08:19] Speaker B: Roland, this question let me answer differently. I'm a sales guy, right? I coach salespeople and salespeople, as you know, are the most stressed people on the planet. On Monday morning you make your number, you're celebrated, and on Wednesday your colleague leaves and now they give you his quota to carry as well, right? So for me, when you look at how salespeople resolve that type of dilemma, it's very simple. Fear.
When you are scared of losing a deal, you cannot sell. The same logic I apply over here, fear will always create a reaction. So for non sales people, look, listening in, people ask me, you know, what's that mindset that salespeople have deeper is that they typically are fearless. You got to take the fear out of it because fear will only give reaction. And clarity is what sales people focus on. What do I need to do? What are the next steps? That's what gives you direction, Roland. And here's the fun part.
Every person, even a salesperson who is going to operate from a basis of fear will find that they are chasing trends, not asking the right questions, focused on all the wrong indicators, doing things which not help a customer solve a problem. They typically, what I call jump to certification collection. They jump from industry to industry and they constantly compare themselves to others.
This busyness, as they call it, is the biggest Problem for them. So don't operate from fear. Fear. I'm always telling my customers, Roland, honestly speaking, fear is will make you run from something.
Clarity makes you go to something. And for me, you can understand this. I call it the push pull dichotomy, right? When you leave a job, also you usually leave a job for emotional reasons. What attracts you the other side is not emotional reasons. They tend to be the reasons which is the beacon on the hill. More money, more reputation, more bigger companies, stuff like that. If you figure that out, then you actually realize you need to get clarity to move you forward. And honestly, Roland, powerful question. Those are very two different journeys. One will allow you to get to the top of the hill. The other one is most likely going to make you pass out at the base of the hill.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: So if somebody's feeling stuck today and they know that change is absolutely necessary, what is going to be the smartest first move? Without wasting too much time,
[00:10:25] Speaker B: this is one of those have a tall drink with me moments. Slow down, buddy, slow down. Roland, I've done some numbers on this and I really want to share this with you.
Most people, when they make a knee jerk reaction, right, and they quit a job as an example, or they try to reinvent their entire life over a weekend, I kid you not that people do that. You know what, by Monday morning, I'm going to be meditating. I'm going to change my mindset. This is what I call Rush Economics. We've slowed down.
Every person in his career makes five mistakes. When it comes to profession, I'm going to keep the entrepreneurs out for one second. Let's just talk about working class people who work for large organizations, right? If you make five mistakes and you have a toxic manager who you've decided you cannot handle, but because you read a billboard that says 10 Ways to Manage a Toxic Manager on LinkedIn, you think you can manage him, right? But you don't spend the time to do it because it's too difficult, it's stressful. This is where I tell people, talk, explore, learn, get feedback first. Understand that clarity because that will then give you momentum. So if you're stuck, don't push things. Have a conversation with a few people, take your time. It's like people want to start a business. And Roland, you know the two approaches to life, right? If you're confident, start and then figure stuff out. What I tell people in a professional situation is different. You're not in a desperate situation, not in a cash flow situation. So whatever you do, do it slow. Do it smart. That's it.
Be curious about finding out more before you do anything drastic. That's how I would answer your question, sir.
[00:11:54] Speaker A: Great. What I love about that is a reminder that reinvention is not about chasing every trend.
It's actually about becoming more intentional, more aware and more prepared for what is next.
When we come back, I want to build on that and talk about how organizations can can actually scale human potential in workplaces that are becoming more technology driven every single day.
We'll be right back with more practical strategies and real world technology solutions for growing businesses. Stay with us. And we're back. I'm Roland Parker and this is the Tech Advantage on NOW Media Television. Let's continue.
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so welcome back to the Tech Advantage. I'm here with Dr. Deepak Bhutra and we've been talking about what reinvention looks like in a business world shaped by AI and constant change.
Now I want to shift from the individual that we've been talking about to the actual organization.
Because technology only becomes an advantage when people are equipped to grow with it.
This segment focuses on how business leaders help people expand, adapt and perform in an increasingly digital environment.
I position the conversation around a key business truth and that is better tools do not automatically create better outcomes. Stronger leadership and better development do so. When companies invest in technologies, why, why, why do they so often under invest in the people that they expect to make their technology work?
[00:14:13] Speaker B: Let me match your why, why, why? With because. Because, because technology feels measurable. That's it. When you make a tech decision, you know exactly how many dollars to spend. You know exactly the bits and bounds. You know exactly where it's going to go. You exactly know if it's an on premise or a SaaS. It's all you can put it into blocks, right? To analyze it. Correct, boss. Now comes the fun part. People development. Please Roland, tell me which P L or which balance sheet have you opened where you actually saw something that wrote there like company is valued at $25 million and here's a line that says human capital.
We talk about human capital, but human capital is something that no one can touch and feel. And that is your answer right up front. And people development for the ages and ages that I've been in, you know, I lost all my hair thanks to human capital development, right?
It is difficult to quantify. You can see a dashboard, you can see a system, right? You can actually see that this system helped me save this much time. But when a human being walks up to you and says that I am struggling in my role, you don't know what to do. Not all of us are trained for it, right? And in fact, even as a coach, I can tell you right now, even in coaching, if you tell me, Deepak, can you show me the frameworks and can you show me the work you do? I can show you a framework, but now you tell me, can you show me exact steps of how it's equivalent to telling you. Here's a manual on how to unscrew something, right? Lift the screwdriver up at a 90 degree angle, ensure that the front blade is aligned to the. You can see what's happening there, right? No one talks like that about human beings, but that's how you talk to when you're writing a manual to operate technology.
And I think this is what's very, very important over there, the mind shift that is needed to make systems successful and measurement successful. It's not going to rotate until people come to the simple conclusion that at 5pm when your doors closed and that building is empty, that value of that building is actually zero, even though it's on the balance sheet as an asset for you, right? And I think that's the biggest problem. And I like the way you introduced this segment, Roland. I agree with you. The greatest ROI comes when organizations invest. And you got to invest equally in both the human element to it and the tech development of it. You know what's really sad, Roland? And I need to, I don't want to disappoint you or get your show off on the wrong footing, but just think about it. The same morning that a company like Oracle announces that they've had record profits for the quarter, they also dumped 30,000 people globally. And the rationale was AI, the same AI that was supposed to lift humanity, is actually first going to cut humanity's head off. Isn't that amazing? Because the entire socio economic employment contract actually said that companies will dump you when they have economic challenges. Now here's a situation where there's no economic challenge, but there's economic gain. You just got chopped. So this is what I call socialism, right? Socialism on the way up, socialism on the way down, both ways you got employment. I told you that if the economy goes down, I'll get you rid of you. But here's the good news. When the economy goes up, I'll still get rid of you. So I don't know how to explain it to you, but that's what I just felt. And so this is one of those funny things. And the scale of displacement is what bothers me.
[00:17:12] Speaker A: So how do they actually define human potential in this workplace where automation, AI and constant change are really just becoming the norm?
[00:17:26] Speaker B: Here's the challenge with that.
It's like a formula. There is no formula.
To me, human potential is measured very simply, that if I can do X amount of work by thinking in a certain way, and let's just call it a number for one second, right? Then the question is, can I grow beyond that capability, that capacity?
Now here comes AI. AI can process information quite substantially. And here's something very important and I think, Rohan, you will appreciate this. The more AI we use, the more AI we use to generate our emails, our letters, our outreach. As an example. I'm just taking a very basic example. Right.
The more you're actually training future models to start converging to the mean. And the mean is that there was an average human being. Now you have an average human being with an average AI, that output has to be crappier than the earlier output. It just has to. Mathematically.
People can challenge me on this one. Right, so you've used AI to process information. Awesome. But here comes the human element that no one can take away. We read between the lines. AI reads the lines. Humans will provide judgment and that's important.
Human beings will give that empathetic look to a customer who says, I need this, but I don't have the budget. Can you help me figure this out?
That's when human creativity comes in. Right. As a salesperson, customer's body language is important to me. I give a price and he reacts, goes backwards or he leans forward. Those indicators, I have to tell AI, AI can't sense it though. It's getting there. It is getting to a point where you can. It actually senses from video recordings that his pupils enlarged when you mention price, therefore there is a problem. I kid you not, Roland, that is happening in the background. There are tons of companies working on body language also.
But your question was pretty same for how do you define human potential? With immense difficulty. The future has to be measured for people in a way that says that potential is now just only not emotional intelligence, critical thinking, but how you combine AI tech fluency in your language as you go forward. And unfortunately, Nolan, I'll Be honest with you, you will not lose your job to AI. You're most likely going to lose your job to someone sitting next to you who's using AI better than you are, full stop. That's how I see the future, sir.
[00:19:35] Speaker A: One of the things we always tell our technicians is, and our clients is that we're really using AI to offer that more personal approach because people want to deal with people and they can do that if they're using AI more to do some of the background work which allows them to do the customer interfacing work.
But you, you know, people are obviously going to feel threatened.
So what leadership habits can companies do to help teams actually feel more empowered by new systems instead of being threatened by them? Because there's obviously going to be a big fear. Anytime a company says, well, we're adopting AI, all the employees are going to be going, well, wait a minute, what's going to happen to us? Because they hear those news like Oracle where people have been laid off. So how can a leadership actually pass that down to go, no, we're actually going to do this to empower you and not be threatened by it.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: So Roland, I'm going to say something that's going to get you a bit upset, but let's just throw AI out of the window for one second.
Human beings in general are always threatened by technology. I come from a automation background, right. And I have watched at one point my team used to be. True story and I'll just share it with you. 273 people. My management came to and says, nope, need to cut cost over two years. I took the 273 down to 152 and someone said we need to cut cost. We ended after three years with 73 people. The 73 people were doing the same work that 200 odd people were doing.
Massive. I got a promotion out of that, right. But here's my biggest learning the way to understand it's not just the AI onslaught till we've been always having an A. We have been had, we have had, how do you say, the job consolidation going on for a very long time. This time it's different. Like I mentioned, it's not about cutting the lower level off, it's about cutting vertically. You're not taking management layer with you.
Any formula that works. And I can tell you with AI there's three things you really need to focus on. First is the communication.
People are not scared of change, they're scared of uncertainty. Make sure that you focus on the uncertainty. Roland, the senior leaders that actually show the vulnerability in a conversation are the ones that will win. Two, communicate a lot. Communicate more than necessary.
Number two, involve. People need to be involved in their own process. If you're going to make a decision and you actually tell them that from the team, I brought in four people who act as change agents and will tell us what is the right thing to do and what is the wrong thing that we're doing. People always support what they create or they have a voice in. Right. What's in it for me? If you're not able to sell them that, you're in trouble. And the last variable that I'm going to add specifically for AI, Roland, for you, especially for this show, is development.
You are asking people to embrace something that potentially will take the job. Right. You put it in more subtle words. I'm going to be.
You're not just going to get resistance, you're actually going to get ambushed. People are going to actually slash your tires because it's not a joke anymore. Right. Again, you need to actually be candid in explaining what's going to happen. Right. You need to build people's confidence not just in yourself, but in their own future. And I can assure you with AI, what used to be very simple task is not going to be simple anymore because you also have two events that have happened.
Event number one, which people underestimate is Covid.
Covid actually taught people that they can work from home.
Covid also taught people that they don't need to be in the office sucking up to their bosses to see how they get their jobs done. And the second event is AI. These two events are making sure that the next generation that's going to graduate from college and come into workforce, no one is ever going to ask them, where do you see yourself in five years? Remember Roland, that favorite question that you and I used to get?
I would shoot any recruiter who says that anymore because there's no recruiter worth the salt that should ask the question anymore. It's redundant. And it was made redundant not by people like you and me. We. It was made redundant by an entire system that changed. And Covid and AI, that onslaught has broken whatever relationship that were. The contract is gone. It's history.
People will be more mercenary. Like. That's also why, Roland, you have bring your own AI, as I call it, right? As a concept, all of us when we used to work for companies, did we really have a stack of stuff on the side? It was called shadow it. Right? You're a technical guy now. Can you Imagine the size of technical IT technique. I cannot tell you. I have customers who each have paying hundreds of dollars per month on their own secondary stack of AI that they use to second guess the company as well as create a data gap that the company is not aware of.
Back to you, sir.
[00:24:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a pretty scary thing. So what should the business leaders actually focus on if they want productivity, adaptability and people to grow at the same time?
[00:24:20] Speaker B: I can tell you it's very simple. Culture of learning. This has been said for the last 50 years. This now becomes very important. You need to take development to the next level. You really need to now teach people how to use AI judiciously use AI in a way that they learn from it. Not to abdicate the responsibility, but to get sharper in the human elements that AI cannot take over.
You said it beautifully earlier, right? Give away the low level value stuff that takes and consumes time from you. Get the baseline information that used to take two weeks to get to town a couple hours. Now look at that information and start making judgment calls. That's the virtuous cycle that I would sell to you, Roland. That's how I would say growth can only happen from continuous learning.
You need to separate also people's performance from the development. Right now we conflate the two. You're doing bad in the job, therefore you're not deserving of development. That's the wrong attitude. You're worthy of development irrespective. Because we have faith, right? And with AI, if you can't give faith, then what are you giving?
[00:25:18] Speaker A: And that really gets to the heart of it because technology may accelerate performance, but leadership determines whether people actually rise with it. So up next, I want to talk about your own journey and why someone with such a strong corporate leadership background has actually decided to change their focus to change the focus to coaching and development and out of that corporate leadership background. So when we come back, we'll talk about that.
We'll be right back with more practical strategies and real world technology solutions for growing businesses. Stay with us. And we're back. I'm Roland Parker and this is the Tech Advantage on NOW Media Television. Let's continue.
Welcome back to the Tech Advantage. My guest today is Dr. Deepak Butra.
And what makes this conversation so valuable is that he's actually seen leadership from both sides. From the pressure of operating at the highest level to the deeper work of helping people grow to the next level.
This segment is going to explore Dr. Deepak Bhutra's evolution from senior business Operator to executive coach and mentor. I use this part of the episode to uncover what today's leadership need, but are often not getting inside traditional business environments.
So after decades leading inside large organizations, what made you shift your focus towards coaching and leadership development?
[00:27:05] Speaker B: You know, the answer is in the question. After decades leading inside large organizations, I actually realized, Roland, that this corporate rat may win the corporate race, but he's still a rat. And that revelation actually made me sit up and ask myself, what do you want from life, Deepak? Then came Covid. I lost family members.
Then a close family member suffered mental harm at work. And I actually started asking, is there an opportunity for me to do something very different? Because I'd come to a very simple conclusion. One 5k people I have coached and mentored in the last 15 years. Right, right, Ronan. And one thing I learned mentoring these people was that not 10%, not 20%, not 70%, hundred percent of them, 100% of them had what I would call people problems. They were not that my boss, it was more like, my boss is toxic or my boss is not convinced that I'm doing something, therefore I'm stressed, I need to earn more.
There was always something going on, you know, the old school days old. And they used to tell us, keep your personal work and nonsense at home. And when you come to work, I want 100%. Well, I don't know how people even listen and tolerate that stuff, but that doesn't work.
So I came to the simple realization that people, companies have become good at strategy, right? They make sound strategy judgments and here's where the opportunity was to make a difference to people's lives. How can I help someone be more confident, communicate better, appropriate mindset, leadership. I shifted gears when I came to very simple, interesting mathematical determination. And Roland, you will personally like this because you know the value of these numbers, right?
If people make five mistakes in the first 10 years of their career, in the career choice, in the anguish or angst they feel, and then they quit the job. Most people that quit the job on an emotional basis typically go for a similar or same salary. It takes typically four years to recover from that. Now, Roland, you make three or four mistakes like that in the first 10 years of your life where you either give away promotion or take the wrong role or you do something stupid, you will actually be surprised. Roland, we did some numbers and we came to the simple conclusion that at the end of 35 years when you exit, your net worth is going to be a third less than what it was. So if you're thinking of, let's say retiring with half a million dollars after 35 years of hard work and labor, you will actually realize you could have graduated or left with a 800k or maybe a million dollars. Because the compounding effect matters. And this is revelation. I try to explain to people, people ask me, isn't coaching touchy feely? And I said no. Coaching is actually going to be what I call return on clarity. I'm going to teach you how to compound and manage your net outcome after 35 years by focusing on. So instead of running away from a toxic manager, how do you learn to manage a toxic manager? That is a far better return on investment.
We overemphasize human mental health and all that. And I can tell you one thing, if you run away from a toxic manager, the mental harm or the ability to manage future managers like that is lost.
Because trust me, you move from one bucket of something to the next bucket of something, you're going to always find yourself bucketing, bucketing, bucketing. There is no holy grail if you're going to run away from a toxic manager. What guarantees do you have that you will not get a toxic match in the future? And I think this is undersold. We need to explain this to our youngsters, our teenagers. Yes, we respect the fact that toxic managers have mental toll on you, but a smart navigator can operationalize that and work on it. And that's why I built Rise up and that's my focus, career progression for the 21 to 30 year olds, which actually goes against the grain and actually says to them, how do you double down, how do you build the resilience, how do you balance your time, how do you know what to prioritize and so on, so on. Roland.
[00:30:41] Speaker A: So how does coaching really uncover the blind spot that this traditional management that you've been speaking about often miss? You know, what is it that somebody like yourself would bring to the table? Table to uncover those blind spots?
[00:30:56] Speaker B: It's like asking a sales manager, how do you measure people? He'll tell you, I manage them on their quota achievement. Right Roland, you 82%. Well, you're on a performance improvement plan, mate. If you're at 104%, hey, come home, I'll buy you a beer. And this is the fun. Managers typically focus on performance. As a coach, I focus on awareness of self and that's where the fun starts. You have a blind spot, right? You can't see yourself because no one actually you can't stand in front of a mirror to see yourself. Right. Roland, this is one of those avatar moments. You. You put your hand on someone's hand and you say, I see you. And that is the communication. That's what a coach does. Coach King. A true coach creates reflection. Roller. I honestly believe that. Right. And a true coach will also ask people ask those questions of themselves, which they would be very upset if someone else asked them. Right. But ask it of yourself. And to be honest with you, the most breakthroughs that I have seen, it's not because someone is getting advice from me, but because they're getting insight that they reveal.
There's this thing in Hindu literature, Roland, where we talk about the third eye opening up right? Now that's not about a deformity. The third eye simply means that the two eyes are given to us to see things in a certain way. But the third eye is what actually illumination then enters into your system. Right.
And this is what I'm talking about. So coaching is about awareness, because when awareness happens, change happens after that.
[00:32:15] Speaker A: So why is people development no longer really a soft skill conversation, but actually coming down to a real true business advantage?
[00:32:30] Speaker B: We spoke about AI. Just look at the pace of onslaught with AI, Roland. Four years ago, when I first tested AI, I was bored to death because it was throwing so much at me.
Three and a half years, three years, two years, I suddenly started getting very nervous because the thing was le in leaps and bounds, I actually realized. So when we talk about people development, it's not a soft skill conversation, it's a business advantage. Because you need to teach your people how to become adaptable.
Not just in how they consume AI, but how they manage that onslaught that you feel on your soul, in your system. Right? Your identity is under attack now. Not your role anymore. Both were under attack, but now your identity gets attacked because intellect AI comes and says, you're not as smart as you thought, buddy. Because I for pennies, can do the work you used to do, which took you hours. I can do it in a minute and I can do it better.
And I'm sorry to say this to people, but that's the reality. So as an example, if I'm coaching eight people at the same time, and you, Roland, were to ask me, deepak, which is a smart person or who? I can't remember. I have to go look at my notes. But look at AI. By the time I even open my notes, AI will come back to an answer and tell you, Rian is here, Jacob is there, and Peter is doing this and wow.
And that is the problem. And I think this is what I need to tell people. Markets, technology, changing customer expectations, changing my buyers when I go to sell, actually use AI to know more about me than I know about myself. So the sword cuts both ways, right, Roland?
[00:33:53] Speaker A: So what really changes when those business leaders stop trying to be the smartest person in the room, which is typically the leader always wanted to be the smart person, but when they stop thinking, okay, I don't need to be the smartest, and they start investing in stronger people around them.
[00:34:14] Speaker B: Wow, that's a tricky question, right? Let's just ask ourselves a simple question. We've heard this old saying, right? If you are an A class leader or manager, you need to make sure you hire aoe because the second you hire B class, you will end up with a C class organization overall. That's just how it operates, right? So if we accept that, then the next question need to ask is that by implicit in that design is the fact that a true leader knows that he is not the smartest person in the room. His job is actually not to be too smart. His job is to actually get all the smarts in the room to become two plus two five. That synergy is what you paid for as a leader. And to me, leaders become bottlenecks when they don't understand that. And when you understand that and you go from a, from a place of humility and you know, what's the word I look for? You know, magnanimous humility. You know that the collective is smarter than the individual at any given time. Unfortunately, individuals get paid more at the CEO leadership level. We respect that, we understand that because they know how to consolidate. And to me, if you're focusing on innovation, ownership, engagement, the only way to do that is understand that as a leader your role has shift. You don't need to know all the answers, but you need to create the environment where people around you can get to the great answers that you're looking for for. And that emergent behavior is now accelerated thanks to AI. In fact, I would say that leaders should be actually using AI to create a devil's advocate system that checks what they are doing. And that is. Roland Howard answered that question. And that's how you're going to scale leadership with AI.
[00:35:43] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a little bit unusual because we've always said you want to have humans to double check AI, but you also need AI to double check humans. And if you've got that double check in place, it really makes a huge advantage. And I think sometimes I found that just being a connector and not trying to be the specialist in every environment makes my position that much more valuable because I don't need to be the smartest person. I just need to know who the smartest person is to bring into that conversation.
So this is an important distinction because strong businesses don't need operators. They need leaders who know how to multiply people.
So in our final segment, I want to bring all of this together by talking about substantial performance and how leaders can build results without creating burnout.
We'll be back soon.
We'll be right back with more practical strategies and real world technology solutions for growing businesses. Stay with us. And we're back. I'm Roland Parker and this is the Tech Advantage on NOW Media Television. Let's continue.
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so welcome back to the Tech Advantage. I'm closing Today's conversation with Dr. Deepak Bhutra by looking at a challenge every business leader feels right now.
How do I build a high performing organization without completely driving my people into exhaustion?
I close the episode by addressing the tension between ambition and sustainability.
This final segment gives the audience a clear takeaway. Lasting performance requires disciplined leadership, healthy systems, and a culture that supports resilience as much as results.
So a lot of companies say that they want high performance, but what they end up creating is burnout. Why does this happen so often?
[00:38:21] Speaker B: I'm Indian extract, right? And we watch a lot of movies. And Roland, when you ask me this question, there's a scene in a movie that I really need to tell you and you'll laugh.
Son does something stupid. He comes home, the dad is screaming at him, shouting at him. He's very. He starts throwing glasses full of water around to show his anger. So the son watches him. Then the dad looks at his son and says, respond, say something. So the son runs up, picks up a glass jug of water, throws it on the ground and then looks at his dad and says, if intensity is what you want, then this is not an effective conversation. You need to dial down, let's talk.
And that is how I explain it. Most organizations today are watching people throw glass all over the place. It's what I call intensity. A lot of noise. A lot of noise. I'm working hard. I'm working hard. I work till 7 o' clock I worked at 8 o'. Clock. That's a prevailing way of winning an argument. You don't win an argument by throwing things around. You got to win an argument by sitting down and having a conversation.
And that is an oddball way of telling you, Roland, many organizations are actually confusing this intensity, right? This what I call noise. That's not communication. And they look at that and they see people working late, spending, you know, no lunch. I eat my lunch at my desk. Effectiveness, where is effectiveness then? People work hard and that doesn't always mean that they work smart. You know that now, right? And this is what I realized about burnout. Burnout is going to happen when you are consistently demanding of yourself something which is not allowing you to recover in time. It's a long winded statement. But that recovery process, some people do it very well. Some people don't have control over it. I used to have better control over it, but as I started aging. Blood sugar, the amount of sleep you take, the way you process and how you recover matter, Roland. They do. And this is what I keep telling people. This is not a time management issue anymore. It's an energy management issue. And energy people can think it's a protein bar. Energy is not just a protein bar. Energy is also the vibes, the people you associate with. There's emotional energy, there's physical energy, there's a lot of types of energies, right? So for me, I've always tell people, if you really want to understand effectiveness and you want to understand burnout and how to avoid it, the best way to understand is that a sustainable performance, honestly speaking, is not a sprint, it's a marathon. And you prepare differently for a marathon. The way you eat, the way you exercise, the way you practice, completely different game. That's how I would answer your question, Roland. And forgive me for the Indian movie metaphors, but they work very well from where I come from.
[00:40:51] Speaker A: So what are those early warning signs that if you're in this high performing culture, are the actual warning signs that people should pay attention to when they could be heading into an unhealthy one? Because companies may be thinking, we've got this high performing culture, everybody comes here, they're outer performing.
What do they need to look out for?
[00:41:15] Speaker B: This is one of the most popular questions when I go into any organization. When I'm doing a sales consulting, right? I sit in a meeting room and I look for a couple of signs.
You know, your sales engine is faltering when people are telling you stuff to make sure that you don't get angry with them on why they're my. Why their numbers are missing. Right. They're not telling you the truth. So look, number one, the truth goes missing, people stop speaking honestly. That's very important. Number one. Number two, those people that used to stand up and say that I will help you, I will support you are not doing that anymore. Because high performance culture actually encourages you to throw other people under the bus. Right.
Or constantly complain, I work so hard, but other people don't.
That's. So look around for that time of. And then the third thing.
You know what, guys? I only slept for four hours last night. I have a massive headache. And the team says, come on, buddy. It's like having six beers and you have a major hangover, but someone says have a seventh beer to reduce the hangover. That's what the guys do. And here's what I want to caution everyone. And I have done this. I've done it myself.
We in the way that you wear a jacket and you put medals on it is the same thing. Burnout has become a badge of honor. I think leaders need to pay attention to that.
We need to understand if you lose, we still celebrate. If you win, we celebrate. And we need to celebrate every small win. I think that's a big mistake. We do. We're always looking for the proverbial big ding ding ding ding ding. Celebrate the small ding dings that matter. And here's what I really want to call out to people.
Go to any kickoff sales kickoff, Roland. And this is the award for saving the deal by non stop working through two days and three nights and making the deadline and making sure the customers are always with us. The award for most biggest team player of the year goes to Deepak Mudra.
That's an unhealthy culture that is celebrating sacrifice at a personal level and also saying that all that work was done by one single individual. It's never true. Never true at all.
That's how I would answer that question for you, Roland.
[00:43:16] Speaker A: So how do they then maintain that accountability and excellence without completing pushing people into that chronic overload that you talked about?
[00:43:26] Speaker B: Oh, Roland, you know what overload? Overload is when you're trying to please your boss by doing things which your boss never asked for.
That's. I know, it sounds really funny, right? Bosses or leaders role is actually to create clarity. You create clarity, people will handle demanding goals as long as they're the right goals.
What goes wrong is when you give them competing goals, competing priorities, and you give them constant urgency. Everything is important and you know the old rule, right, Roland? When everything is important, nothing gets done right? And I think I've realized one thing. The most exceptional leaders that I worked for, Roland, if they were working on 100 things, they would whittle it down to 10. The other 90, they would delegate.
And that is the biggest lesson I can give here. Take the same philosophy. If a leader knows what they can delegate out, then they can and manage their time, then they have. The leadership is a privilege.
It's been given to you. You need to make sure that you understand you're also accountable for the humanity in the process. Right, Roland? And you got to understand both accountability and humanity are not opposites. They're both partners. And for leaders to understand that the top leaders actually do, I just wish more leaders understood that very clearly. Clarity. Just focus on clarity.
[00:44:43] Speaker A: So where can technology actually support sustainable performance? And where does it just accidentally increase pressure and fatigue?
[00:44:56] Speaker B: In the old days, my bosses used to say as follows. Love Deepak. He's available 24 by 7. Call him anytime. He always answers the phone. I'm actually ashamed of that. Today I am. And here's the fun part. So now, now we're in a technology era. The question I would ask everyone to think about is, have you made sure that technology that uses is powerful enough to remove friction?
I don't want to be available all the time, but I want my knowledge to be available all the time. So potentially there's a way for me to bring in an AI setup or something that can actually be the first point of bring something to Deepak's notice. Deepak's knowledge is a chatbot resolves. It moves on. Here's the biggest thing that I think technology needs to focus on. Remove these boundaries, remove this. People say yes to everything.
I need technology to actually allow them opportunity to say that. I'll say yes to everything, but I'm going to delegate some to tech to do it for me. Awesome.
Moving stuff off your desk is not losing a face. And I think that's the culture we need to change.
Take the routine task in sales today, we have got better management of some of the basic stuff, right? There is a problem, of course, where you outsource all your emails to an AI to do. Roland, you know that because communication is a very important piece of work that you need to. Need to do happen, right?
So. But it still is valuable to be able to do routine tasks. Give it away. I say that to salespeople all the time. You don't need to be available 24 hours like I said earlier, right? And you just need to understand, AI right now is being used to attract human attention because now we can do so many things at the same time. Slow down, buddy. If you have a broken process, right, Roland, and you put AI or automation on top of that, all you've done is scale stupidity.
So I caution people that, you know, if you want to use tech, let's at least use it the right way first. Make sure that your process works, then take that process and automate it. Otherwise it's just doing something very stupid with AI. And I can assure you, 86% of AI projects fail as per MIT, and they fail because the fundamental process was so disjointed that no one actually first fixed the process or understood it, but they had to put AI because someone told them, AI will do this, this, this, this, this.
[00:47:03] Speaker A: Leaderships come in and they go, you know, we need to put AI, we need to put AI. And they just end up accelerating the brokenness and they don't get anywhere. That's why whenever we come in, we really want to look at what. Let's look at the process, let's look at where automation and AI make sense. And when it doesn't, when it does.
[00:47:25] Speaker B: Agreed.
[00:47:25] Speaker A: Roland. The one long term leadership lesson you want executives to remember about performance, resilience and growth,
[00:47:38] Speaker B: it's not about what you can endure, it's about how much endurance you show to the world by creating lasting impact. That's how I would put it, Roland.
A leader is, it reflects to the world, right, that how do you get all this stuff? The only way to do that is build people.
Build people that know you, build them and then they celebrate you.
I always tell people, if you're doing things right and you're building capability, building the right culture, I want you to ask yourself, when you're at your wake, well, you're dead. You're standing there, your spirit is watching all these people talking about you. What will they say about you? That legacy is ultimately what's going to define whether the work you're doing today is as strong as you think it is.
And if you cannot picture that, then you have more work to do, my friend. Roland. That's how I'd answer your question.
[00:48:28] Speaker A: Well, that is a powerful way to end. Because real advantage, it's not just about moving faster. It's about building a business where people can adapt, contribute and perform over time without breaking down in the process.
Dr. Deepak Bhutra, thank you so much for thoughtful and timely conversation and thank you for Joining me today on the Tech Advantage, I'm Roland Parker, and I'll see you next time.
